The Coming Depression

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AllenV	The Coming Depression	Lead	[-]
Posts: 9 (03/16/08 14:24:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Ran's post commenting on a reader's inquiry about what to do in the "coming depression," cracks me up. Can someone tell me why we should be concerned today? I mean, what about ten years ago? Weren't folks preparing for the future then? Ran's advice, investing in land, eliminating debt, becoming skillful, and I would add...building your community with real people that are committed to each other... is great advice that should be done in any economic climate. The best reason to heed Ran's strategy is that it is a strategy for good living. What Ran outlines in his response to the commenter is not a "crisis management" strategy, but simply wise and fruitful living. Ran has lived like that for many years, he is merely sharing his strategy for living beyond the economic. Not that this is easy stuff. Hell, my partner and I just got into a 30 year mortgage and we don't have the liquid to pay it all off in an emergency, but we realize this risk. Good thing we do own outright a bunch of raw acreage in another state...and a camper vehicle. We have bug out plans...just in case. Again though, we've been at this stuff for seven years...building, saving, planing. The point is that wealth will evaporate. It's going to be gone, and this is a good thing! Wealth just causes anxiety. Consumption causes destruction. The more you own and the more you are worth, the more damage to the world you are responsible for.
lulugraphics	credit crunch?"	#1	[-]
Posts: 33 (03/18/08 05:03:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	along these same topic lines, I keep reading over and over about the "credit crunch." as someone who has shunned credit for 20 years, that crunch isn't bothering me, how come there's no coverage of the "money crunch?" Now that's something I've noticed for at least 10 years, you know, how the cost of things like a place to dwell or a vehicle (which I don't have but many do) is completely unrelated in a real way to the amount that workers get from their indenture holders? Really, wages are pathetic in most industries and geographical locations and the wages have gotten lower and the indignity of what one has to do to get the wages is higher. I realize people on this forum probably "get" what I'm talking about but what's with those other sheep? Can't they think or do even simple math? Or was the allure of "credit" and a ticket to Walmart enough to take their minds off other things? I'm totally baffled.
Hakim Baker	ir/responsibility	#2	[-]
Posts: 42 (03/18/08 08:09:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I was just thinking about how they're always bailing out the banks, but not the people. They (the Federal Reserve and/or the government) will dump millions if not billions into helping out institutions, but not, say, lop a zero off of everyone's credit card debts. I know, they have to keep up the appearance that everyone will eventually have to pay off their debt ... we can't encourage people to be irresponsible ... but all the same--it was all the lenders irresponsibly giving out "subprime" loans that got us to where they have to be bailed out again. I guess it's all fractals of irresponsibility, from civilization's global exploitation of the planet, down to my putting a dollar in a vending machine for treats. My hope is, that as things get a little more chaotic and ambiguous, the time will be right for a phase shift, and all us little tipping points will tip and local grassroots community efforts will emerge. That would be great, but I think all the screens might have to burn out first, so people actually have time to do something rather than watch something. Well, who knows, here I am already doing stuff (baby steps in permaculture) while all my neighbors still have their antennas stuck to their houses. We can be the weeds growing in the cracks, no matter if most of the sidewalk is still there.
Robert in Phoenix	Again, what about physical fitness?	#3	[-]
Posts: 12 (03/20/08 05:27:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	How about investing your time/money into becoming stronger physically? I have mentioned this before, the "dropout" literature doesn't ever talk about this, and Ran is completely silent on this topic even when I have posed related questions to him directly. I hate to have the image of the skinny, dumpster-diving "fringe" Seattle kid in my mind, but maybe this is who is behind all of these writings. Please don't send me hate on this. No ill feelings are intended here. I just think more emphasis needs to be placed on being prepared physically for an emergency or "collapse" and wondering why it is not emphasized. I hate to have the image of people averse to being physically fit running the show on this sort of information/discussion. Being physically fit should be right there along with having practical skills sets. Knowing how to build a log cabin is fine, but how are you going to lift that 100-pound log??? How are you going to endure hours worth of work outside? Last Edited By: Robert in Phoenix 03/20/08 05:31:09. Edited 1 times.
lulugraphics	food hoarding	#4	[-]
Posts: 34 (03/20/08 05:35:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm not doing it. I just don't have a place or the like-minded around me to do it. Also, the idea of food hoarding brings this cultural meme to mind: Y2K. I've seen bits and pieces of previous food hoarding from different eras, the foods got dumpstered and land-filled. And isn't food hoarding/storage one of those "wealth builders" from biblical times? The pharoah's people got wealthy from their knowledge of food storage and then looked what happened. Just wondering what others' thoughts are on this. I feel like I've worried and tried and stressed to work out my crappy relationship with the dominant paradigm and I make little progress. Food hoarding just seems like another one of those things I'm not able to do. Besides, I'm living with my mom right now and she does enough shopping and food storing for two, I hope. Remember the meat crisis of the early 70's, apparently all the meat people bought then as a hedge against inflation ended up in landfills and didn't decay properly for the next few decades. Anyone else on the forum shirking their coming-catastrophe duties?
The Naturalist	Re:food hoarding	#5	[-]
Posts: 3 (03/21/08 09:33:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That is why skills, knowledge, and, as Robert points out, physical fitness are what those who would live a saner lifestyle should focus on. Hoarding, whether it be food or gold, might make you feel more secure temporarily, but in the long run, it will not help you in dropping out nor in preparing for a depression. In addition, having to protect hoarded supplies can bring on a "me vs. them" frame of mind.
AllenV		#6	[-]
Posts: 10 (03/21/08 12:12:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Good stuff. I agree with physical fitness. For some reason this is not a "hot topic" amongst most "crash bloggers," although general health sometimes comes up. I admit to being slack about this for a few years now, though my fitness is always on my mind. Hording is something I like the idea of...but I think The Naturalist is right about how it divides us vs them, and also as lulu points out, nothing lasts forever. But this is one reason I am learning to farm "sustainably" by growing plants, seed-saving, and using an underground cellar (this project will be implemented this year, though, I've studied for a few years). Also, I don't do my preparations as if a crash is coming. Honestly, I just want to live with as little reliance on the economy as I can muster. If everyone else or no one else does the same is of little concern to me.
lulugraphics		#7	[-]
Posts: 35 (03/21/08 17:16:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thanks for all the good comments and feedback on this thread. Yes, I don't hear much talk about the physical fitness and people who are around me wouldn't guess that I am keeping strong and building endurance in my own ways since I don't work out or do sports. But I am always thinking: I could carry one kid in a special kind of sack I know how to sew that hangs my head and I don't use my arms to carry this lighter weight person because I am using my arms to push another bigger kid or heavier person on the bike seat with my hands on the handle bar and I can do this slowly and methodically a long way, even uphill. I don't have a lot of "strength" but I know leverage and have much endurance. Even though I'm not into sports, I've learned from research and observation of athletes, endurance is actually kind of a "better" strength than brute force or quicker type strengths. Naturally, this is not a scientific analysis rather experiential which I've found a more reliable and wiser teacher in spite what cultural has tried to get me to believe. Whew, I can deep breathe again over not food hoaring.
lulugraphics		#8	[-]
Posts: 36 (03/21/08 17:23:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	oops, freudian homophonic slip, I meant hoarDing, not whoring.
silverspringwoman	lol	#9	[-]
Posts: 252 (03/22/08 08:19:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	but your slip was apropo... a lot of what people do is food "hoaring"; fear making them slaves to the system. I try each day to find a level where I am not afraid but can look forward to the opportunities that exist in times of social unrest. I for example whore myself out to the non profit community each day for my daily bread, but find I do not mind most days, as what I am bringing my community has the power to "subvert the dominant paradigm"-ubiquitous broadband access and a plan to ensure that it is free and accessible with special emphasis for disabled, low income and seniors. Just doing my part to make sure the money and copywrite-based system dies a horrid death!
zombans		#10	[-]
Posts: 113 (03/28/08 18:01:03) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I read in news that the Federal Reserve invented something like $300 billion dollars in March and projections for April. I wonder if that will help Americans any. How much is that going to affect inflation and our increasingly useless dollars? Regarding food hoarding, I feel good having a pantry full of canned stuff at harvest's end (and gallon upon gallon of homemade wine), but the thought of buying (and using) years worth of mre's does not endure. If something during the growing season happened, I am certain I could feed on the vast amounts of weeds growing in nearby empty lots in our blighted town. It might be a starvation diet, but I wouldn't be starving. Heck, I might even be healthier! Tomorrow I'm going to make some weeds calzones. With the few nice warm days here and there, and plenty of rain, the garlic mustard is taking over a corner under our old elm, and dandelion greens are just the right size and plentiful. I am attempting to make a sourdough starter for the dough (catching yeast in the house, and hoping they are friendly), and with pasta sauce canned last fall, and mozzarella cheese, along with the weeds, I am hopeful for a yum supper tomorrow. Too tired today, though! carey
AllenV		#11	[-]
Posts: 14 (03/28/08 18:31:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wait....catching yeast? I must know more.....
csimba	Ah doom sweet doom...	#12	[-]
Posts: 27 (03/29/08 17:45:10) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If anyone is catching the non mainstream news you'll see that the Fed is getting ready to tell congress to hand over the keys to the Treasury Department. Gonna be a lot of fancy talk on the hill with very little news coverage, and the real deal is that the private bankers of the fed res are going to pull the plug on america if they don't get total control of the money. The ultimate goal of the international bankers is heading for the finish line. Now it don't bother me a bit - america sold out and died a century ago. Money is a convenience to me only because everybody else is stuck in the money trap. I bartered a Birkenstock rebuild for eggs and goat milk delivery this week from a old goofy cobbler still in business. It's nice to go off planet like that whenever I can. Cooking up a deal with a motel for their unusable sheets for garden produce. Sew up my own boxer shorts and tye dye shirts, lol. Doom is fun. Believing the complete end of the world as we know it is just around the bend is the best way to get the creative juices flowing. Get to work, folks...
zombans	catching yeast	#13	[-]
Posts: 114 (03/30/08 09:45:56) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Catching yeast for sourdough. My old sourdough starter, which was quite lovely, went rank in the fridge from lack of use, as my oven has been kaput for a while. I set up some flour and water to soak, uncovered, hoping to catch some good yeast. The starter did bubble, and I was hopeful that it would work, but the main batch did not bubble nor rise. But since I was making calzones, it didn't matter too much. We don't have any wine brewing, and only kombucha fermenting right now. Hopefully something sweet will be in the air soon. The Fed is amazing--giving out $300 billion imaginary dollars in March & projected April. Doesn't this private corporation already control the nation's gold supply? Sure, what they need is more power! Liked this quote from FDR: "Through new uses of corporations, banks and securities, new machinery of industry, of labor and capital-all undreamed of by the Fathers-the whole structure of modern life was impressed into the service of economic royalists. It was natural and perhaps human that the privileged princes of these new economic dynasties, thirsting for power, reached out for control of government itself. They created a new despotism and wrapped it in the robes of legal sanction. In its service new mercenaries sought to regiment the people, their labor and their property. And as a result the average man once more confronts the problem that faced the Minute Man. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness. Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of the Government." I agree, csimba, functioning outside the monetary system is spiritually rewarding, not to mention, about the only viable option for those of us who do not have access to the monetary system. And that's quite a lot of us, despite what tv and other media like to tell us. This graph about U.S. income is illuminating: http://gumption.org/1993/memo/landmarks/us_income.html. Nice to see we're all in the trenches together. carey

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