coping with crash

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im2park	coping with crash	Lead	[-]
Posts: 1 (09/28/08 13:10:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I recently sent Ran an email and he told me that the crash isn't coming; it's here. This was a big shocker, this doesn't feel like a crash to me. The crash is going to progress and the economy will get worse as the months go by. At the end of the email, he also said I would need just a couple thousand bucks to get what I need for this crash. What do you guys think I should buy? I don't think I'll need food or water, more like water filters and sun ovens. What do you guys think? What gear did you guys buy to cope with the crash and the current economic state?
dromedary		#1	[-]
Posts: 26 (09/28/08 15:10:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	---gosh surnit, the board ate me words! retyping...--- We have entered the crash. Doesn't feel too different, yet. Fuel shortages, occasional black-outs, and lagged delivery of live's basic necessities are on the horizon for us Americans. We have just hit ten minutes to midnight and we will probably stay there for quite awhile. The powers that be will clutch onto the minute hand until exhausted. The 10 minutes will fly by. To continue the metaphor, after midnight will be interesting times to live in. What will serve you best in the future is circumstantial. There are the ubiquitous needs, once you have means to water, food, and shelter there is no need to lose sleep thinking about the future. Maybe you should plant a few fruit trees and buy some basic hand tools. Or maybe a pallet load of SPAM. It depends on your situation and where you want it to go. Non-sequitur anecdote: This thread makes me think of a bush pilot's survival kit I once saw. It consisted of 1. a bottle of jack daniesl 2. .44 revolver 3. ~10 .44 bullets 4. an issue of Playboy from 1991. I jokingly asked the pilot. What are you going to do if you get stuck somewhere? Drink the whiskey while you peruse the playboy then shoot yourself in the head?
merelydreaming		#2	[-]
Posts: 33 (09/28/08 17:15:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I found out about the crash researching my retirement funds. I had some oil stock and the bankers and professional advisers could not give me a straight answer what to do about it. I was not rich but comfortable and yet facing the prospect that any medical emergency could wipe me out. I really needed to research on my own what to do and also to decide once and for all if I was going to continue owning stocks that stood for the worst aspects of this world or do the deed and get rid of them (as a gift from my late father I struggled with the sentiment of it), lose money but save my soul. I felt like it was important to find out what I could, do my research, make my peace. So! I got back on the Internet and link to link found Ran's site and also Life After the Oil Crash and it was like facing a doctor and being told you have a terminal illness. I went into adrenalin overload and began preparing for what lay ahead. This was a year ago. It has been a really scary year filled with changes. So I understand the shock of learning about the crash. LATOC has lots of good ideas. There are others. Some are so grim that they make you feel paralyzed with depression. There are many points of view. I know a woman who has been studying and preparing for what is known as TEOCAWKI (the end of civilization as we know it) for 40 years!!! Yes, as far back as that a few smart people figured out that resources are finite and that modern life could not be sustainable. Many of us old (former) hippies figured this out and were ridiculed into oblivion. Now a lot of us are really depressed because what we feared and wanted to change, is here and it is ugly. But getting to what to get, in no order of importance. Dried beans, lots of dried beans. As many dried beans as you can afford. (You say you will have food, are you sure?) FRIENDS. A few good friends. Yes, a water filter. Rain barrel. Sun oven is a good idea. Matches. Tools. A sleeping bag. A really good tent. Survival manual. Foraging manual. The best boots and walking shoes you can afford. Clothing to survive cold if it gets cold. A few favorite books. James Kunstler's World Made By Hand, a fun and inspiring and educating novel about deep post-crash life in America. I will send you my copy if you want it. Solar recharging and solar lighting: LATOC has suggestions, so does survivalblog. Sorry I don't do links yet. Make a priorities list and work on down it. Think of it as a very long camping trip and try to find the fun in it. Finding fun in life is an essential survival tool! Don't panic, honey. We are all in this together and there is a lots of support here and increasingly in actual not virtual localities. Getting back to the lady who has known about the crash for 40 years. She is pretty laid back about it. She says it will be very uneven, geographically and over time. So there will be better and worse places to get to and get out of for a long time to come. And America has no shortage of stuff that will still be stuff after things get bad or what many of us now think of as BETTER! As Sharon Astyk writes, and I strongly recommend her writings, there will still be abundance. Water will still fall from the sky, food still grow from the earth, warmth and light come from the sun. Our civilization, in reality, is and has been for a long long time a massive brain-washing effort to convince us of all the things we must have and buy and of a way of life we must live. Humanity got along for a very long time without it. So get a party hat, some confetti, and a noisemaker, because some of us see good reason for celebrating as well as fearing the collapse of the old monster.
dromedary		#3	[-]
Posts: 27 (09/28/08 17:57:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Ran and im2park, if you read this thread maybe you could list off the items in the few thousand dollar preparation list? On the topic of friends and community. Find people who you think will handle the coming events well. They don't need to have the same thoughts about the future. I have many friends in my community who are complete skeptics regarding my thoughts regarding the next few years, some finding them laughable. BUT, when things get rough they should handle the times well. Well meaning they will remain sane, positive, maintain a good constitution, and be willing to work together. True colors will shine and many will come out of the woodwork when the future-spec most readers here hold enters the present.
zombans		#4	[-]
Posts: 205 (09/28/08 18:13:13) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am of the opinion that being adaptable and confident and able to get along with other people are more important in the long run than anything you can buy. And also, every spring we get a couple thousand dollars back from our tax return (the reason we file taxes), and we invest it in something. I don't have much faith in banks, but I do have faith in objects that let me live my life easier, without ties to civilization. We've invested in seeds, tools, clothesline, house repairs, canning equipment, cast iron cookware, trees and berry/fruit patches, rain barrels, chainsaw. Last year we invested in a woodstove, which took all of our tax return, but has been worth it. Anything we purchase, we try to get quality goods, although there are some/a lot of things we simply can't afford. Anything we purchase, we try to get things that fill more than one function, like our woodstove which doubles as a water heater, cooktop, and carboy warmer. The things we purchase, we buy because they cut the ties that bind us to civilization, to debt which is slavery. It's much easier to rely on ourselves than to rely on corporations. If I didn't get a tax return to invest in my future, I would still be feeling secure, knowing that I can live in a community, that I can help and share when needed, and I appreciate my friends. I know the crash could still be happening when I'm on my deathbed, so I'm not spending time fretting and worrying about it. Honestly, I just wish "it" would get here so we can get it over with. I can only imagine what it will be like living in a city with a hundred thousand people with no job and car to devote themselves to, all looking for an authentic life. I can't wait! carey
wolfbird		#5	[-]
Posts: 141 (09/29/08 01:11:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	http://survivalacres.com/wordpress/?m=20080928
Ran		#6	[-]
Posts: 35 (09/29/08 12:33:12) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I agree with everything in Phadraigin's post. To answer the narrower question about buying stuff, here's an incomplete list of stuff I have personally bought, most of which you can still get: a Global Sun Oven, a selection of Gransfors Bruks axes (the Small Forest axe is the most versatile and the Mini Hatchet is totally cool), a Sierra zip stove (hard-core doomers will reject it because it needs batteries), a Corona hand grinder for coarse grinding, a Country Living grinder for fine grinding (unlikely to be useful -- you'd need a scenario where you can get wheat but not flour and you want to make good bread), a Hurricane wheatgrass juicer (in case things get so bad that I need to get nutrients from grass), a Nightstar shake flashlight, a SteriPEN UV water purifier with solar recharger, a really good LED headlamp, a Fluke 117 multimeter, a Hori Hori digging tool, a pair of good rain/snow boots, a down sleeping bag, a Hennessy hammock (donated by Nat, useful if you need to bug out without a car in an area with trees), some Eneloop batteries and a solar recharger, Swift Audubon binoculars, and my last big purchase, a Phoenix Excalibur crossbow with "right stuff" package. For gun info, see the top post on my advice page. Also, if you have any place to plant them, I highly recommend getting some fruit trees and berry bushes. My favorite nurseries are Raintree and St. Lawrence. For food, I've bought lots of raw honey, unrefined salt, chocolate, red wheat berries, and quinoa.
im2park		#7	[-]
Posts: 2 (09/29/08 13:46:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	thank you thank you everybody you guys are so much more positive about the future than the guys at the LATOC forums. I have a few questions, what's the purpose of a Corona Hand Grinder? What am I going to grind? I never heard of a grinder being in a survival kit. phadraigin you're post was EPIC, thank you why would I need a sleeping bag? I have warm blankets.... Does anybody know how to collect rain water for drinking? I want a system that collects rain water so I can drink it so if the tap water doesn't work when the crash hits then I'll have a water supply. And any advices on storing the water after collecting it? Any tutorials, websites, links and specific products that do this would be very helpful And do you think its a good idea to buy freeze dried food like the one in this link? http://www.thereadystore....upply-CASE-of-SIX-10-CANS Ran also told me in his email that even if the crash gets worse there won't be any mass starvation which is a relief but its good to be prepared just in case So this is my shopping list so far which I will add more to later, 1.) Sun oven 2.) One week worth of freeze dried food 3.) extra medicine for a couple of months 4.) Armadillo tires for my bicycle 5.) Water filter 6.) (HELP ME ON THIS ONE) a system to collect rain water 7.) honey, soap, canned tuna, beans, flour, dried fruit 8.) Seeds? (where can i buy good ones? send me a link please) 9.) TOILET PAPER 10) Heating system Am I missing anything on the list? I live on long island, new york. It gets cold during the winters so I will definitely need a heating system. I don't want to use a wood firestove, any suggestions? Heating during the winter is my major concern, food water can be easily obtained but heat is not something you can buy. Please help me on this, any links, tutorials and sites that sell products that can help me with heating would be nice. Last Edited By: im2park 09/29/08 15:20:59. Edited 4 times.
merelydreaming		#8	[-]
Posts: 47 (09/29/08 14:04:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I am torn here. Am I fear-mongering to add a quote from Sunday's UK Guardian that suggests this may be a little speedier that some of us might hope for? Or do I join the ranks of Rupert Murdoch and edit out all opinions that are not cheery? (BTW, did anyone see Yahoo's photo of the protest on Wall Street Thursday? It was like something from Sascha Baron Cohen. The top 3/4 of the picture showed Wall Street, the buildings. The bottom 1/4 showed the heads of some protestors. It was impossible to see what kind of protest this was, how big. And not another photo, story or video!) Okay, I have made up my mind in favor of presenting different points of view in order to find what is relatively real vs. censoring myself and the opinion of the seasoned observer who wrote the following: "Meltdowns on the scale we are seeing are not slow-motion events. They are swift and chaotic, with rapidly spreading side-effects." OUCH. IF this be the truth, it HURTS. http://www.guardian.co.k...gnpolicy.useconomicgrowth Last Edited By: merelydreaming 09/29/08 15:14:24. Edited 3 times.
merelydreaming		#9	[-]
Posts: 48 (09/29/08 14:11:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If it is too dire and nobody even wants to think that way, out of respect for this forum I can delete the above message. Tough call, to my mind. Like knowing somebody is asleep in a burning building and thinking you might want to wake them up. Unless you are a mile away from the building and don't really know if it IS on fire. Guess along with the rest of the world I am trying to discover if the building IS burning.
wolfbird		#10	[-]
Posts: 164 (09/29/08 14:31:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Sorry, merelydreaming, I couldn't get what you want from that abbreviated link... I notice you missed out the // Here's something http://www.guardian.co.uk...etturmoil.bradfordbingley I use Firefox browser on a Mac laptop. I highlight the URL in the slot at the top, click 'copy' in the menu bar, and then 'paste'. Any help ? (If you're on Windows PC, I can't help) I've gotta sleep !
zombans		#11	[-]
Posts: 206 (09/29/08 15:32:25) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Speaking of fun, we've been collecting books, mostly through our public library's outdated and donated books sale. I've got everything from turn of the century anthropology and culture books, pictures of "wild" places, books on how to garden, how to pioneer skills, books on chaos and lots of Phillip K. Dick fiction, and other interesting books that I yet have time to read. I realize I am among the people who desire the crash to get to happening loud and clear. I know it will be hard for a lot of people, but it is already hard for a lot of people. I know the natural disaster crash we experienced was hard to deal with, but opened up our lives in so many ways. I'm so ready to start living another way. I saved seeds from every tomato I canned today. Well, I guess I am living another way, but am hoping that other people will soon be more interested in their neighbors than their jobs. carey
merelydreaming		#12	[-]
Posts: 50 (09/29/08 16:13:00) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I love your attitude, Carey. You sound very prepared! I am getting there, slowly. But, I tell you, it was getting shocked and scared that got me moving and I guess it is in that spirit that I offered the link to the more dire diagnosis by the commentator at the Guardian. Had I been all scared all the time I myself might have crashed so Ran's voice of calm reason was like a nice balm I applied each day to my panic and dread. But the shock is what got me moving and it may have saved me long-term as well as whoever ends up living here at my "crashstead". Last Edited By: merelydreaming 09/29/08 17:25:17. Edited 1 times.
im2park		#13	[-]
Posts: 3 (09/29/08 17:04:52) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Carey, I wish I had a positive attitude like you. Guys on the thread tell me not to panic but everyday in the news you see banks and investment firms failing, its like the economy is going to collapse within 2 months. I think we're going to have another Great Depression, 25% unemployment rate. Just thinking about it makes me depressed. I have about 180,000 in my bank account and I know if the banks fail it'll be all gone, even though the FDIC claims they insure up to 100,000 it still makes me uneasy. I've been also buying books, but I wonder what will happen to the library when the crash gets worse. Reading is my primary entertainment and I would want a constant supply of it. O well I'll just prepare and hope for the best
symbollocks		#14	[-]
Posts: 5 (09/29/08 17:55:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	6.) (HELP ME ON THIS ONE) a system to collect rain water http://www.harvestingrainwater.com/ Although, I would add a couple items to your list: 11.) Social skills; if you have em already, get more. 12.) Good friends; for reasons too numerous to list.
im2park		#15	[-]
Posts: 4 (09/29/08 18:34:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	in my neighborhood, we're like family. We're all friends and have brunch at each other's houses. But when a crash comes I don't think they will be helpful. None of them know about agriculture and the crash in general. I need to get a bunch of seeds to plant in my backyard.
Ran		#16	[-]
Posts: 36 (09/29/08 20:28:18) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	im2park wrote: "What's the purpose of a Corona Hand Grinder? What am I going to grind? I never heard of a grinder being in a survival kit." Well, it's too heavy to be in a bug-out kit, but if you're staying in one place without electricity, a versatile food grinder can be used for lots of things that you would normally do with a food processor. I use my Corona for grinding the sprouted seeds that I use to make my survival crackers. You could also make nut butter, or grind corn into cornmeal. "Why would I need a sleeping bag? I have warm blankets...." This is the opposite of the grinder: if you need to travel without a car, a good sleeping bag gives you the same warmth with much less weight and bulk. And if you want to be seriously prepared, you need to cover both traveling and staying put. "Does anybody know how to collect rain water for drinking?" Basically you just need a non-toxic roof, a clean gutter, and a food-grade barrel with a screen on top. Here's a good page that's focused more on irrigation than drinking: http://local.theoildrum.com/node/4185 Armadillo tires -- excellent idea! Water filter -- what kind you need depends on what you'll be filtering out. For urban tap water, you need a carbon filter for chlorine, and an ionizing resin if your city puts in fluoride. Crystal Quest makes decent tap water filters. For questionable outdoor water, I recommend a biosand filter. Here's a website on how to make one: http://www.shared-source-...osand_filter/biosand.html Everyone is mentioning beans, but I'd go with quinoa, which is a complete protein by itself, and easier to digest than beans. Personally I get heartburn from any bean but pintos. Good source for seeds: http://www.territorialseed.com/ There's no DIY heating system that's not super-hard. If you have a few thousand hours to spare and you love building, I suggest a cob, cordwood, or straw bale house with south-facing double-paned windows, plus a rocket heating stove: http://www.rocketstoves.com/ The easier answer is lots of coats and blankets.
dromedary		#17	[-]
Posts: 28 (09/29/08 20:28:20) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	im2park, I'm guessing you own your house. How is your mortgage situation? I would not pay it off, even if it is in your financial ability. Don't worry about things out of your control. If you savings vaporizes, oh well! Everyone else will be in the same boat. Zombans made a good point on worthwhile purchases....I'm paraphrasing "If it doesn't improve your self-sufficiency, it isn't worth it". Taking some money out of your savings for durable goods would be a good idea. Maybe a solar panel with a battery bank? That way you can read during dark winter nights during a blackout. A rain-water collection system with filtration would be an invaluable investment. You could have one set up within days from now. Remember to start using it as soon as it begins collecting rain. Your body may not be acclimated to that sort of water. What it comes down to is stop worrying and start acting. What is the quote...uhh "a half-assed planned today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow"? Begin taking steps to secure your future with self-sufficiency. One more. I plan on staying put unless absolutely necessary to leave (E.g. staying=death). I have been reconnoitering a few mile radius of my home. The idea is to develop a detailed mental map of everything within short walking distance (topography, pedestrian short-cuts, future resources, civic infrastructure etc.). Once I have the few immediate square miles memorized I'll venture further out.
im2park		#18	[-]
Posts: 5 (09/29/08 20:28:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	in my list i said soap but when i looked in the "100 facts about me" in Ran's website he said, "I don't use shampoo or soap, except on my hands when they're greasy from cooking or bike repair." I wonder how he cleans himself without soap....
Ran		#19	[-]
Posts: 37 (09/29/08 21:14:12) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	im2park wrote: I wonder how he cleans himself without soap.... Hot water and scrubbing, or in a pinch, cold water and scrubbing. We're all animals, and no other animals use soap but most of them stay quite clean. After a few weeks, your body and scalp will adjust and stop making extra oil to replace what the soap removes.
wolfbird		#20	[-]
Posts: 165 (09/30/08 00:10:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Guys on the thread tell me not to panic but everyday in the news you see banks and investment firms failing, its like the economy is going to collapse within 2 months. I think we're going to have another Great Depression" im2park, I don't know you and you don't know me, and I don't know what's going to happen in your neighbourhood, but now, today, there is hope ! And the reason for hope is because, some Americans and a few Congressmen stood up and said they had been abused long enough and would tolerate no more abuse from Wall Street and Bush. I just pray they stand firm and don't give in to fear, then it'll be alright. There will be a very tough time, with much misery. That's not a good thing. But if the Congress and people just give in to Bush and the bankers then the future will be MUCH worse. Bush and the bankers and the mainstream media are trying to frighten the people into submission. It's blackmail. It's extortion. It's robbery. Let the banks fall ! It's the best possible remedy for this mess. That way, you can rebuild afresh. If the banks are saved by promises of more money (which doesn't exist), the dollar will collapse and the people will be enslaved and impoverished trying to pay more and more taxes to pay the money back. Ron Paul is right. He's the voice I've heard that is brave enough to call Bush's bluff. Marcy Kaptur is right. Almost all the others are speaking with forked tongues. They've been bought by the bankers. They are sock puppets. I just hope that people keep up the pressure, keep sending emails, NO BAIL OUT ! Let the banks crash. It'll hurt, but not as much as if they get bailed out by stealing your futures.

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